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Insight into Breeding Sport Horses and Ponies from P.Wynn Norman and Sportponies Unlimited!
This entry was posted on 2/25/2007 6:07 PM and is filed under Great Event Horses,Thoughts.
P. Wynn Norman breeds some fabulous Sport Ponies and is the breeder of the spectacular eventer, Theodore O’Connor, who Jimmy Wofford describes as “The Pocket Rocket”.
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“Teddy” is currently competing with Karen O’Connor and he is believed to be the first Advanced level eventer to hold a USEF permanent Pony card! David O’Connor recently remarked about Teddy on Equisearch, "That horse has 4-star written all over him." Other Sport Ponies Wynn has bred have gone on to illustrious careers such as USEF (then AHSA) Horse of the Year in the Small-Medium Green Pony Hunter Division and WEF Tournament of Champions Reserve Champion in the Small Pony Hunter Division.
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Theodore O’Connor (Teddy) and Karen O’Connor at the American Eventing Championships
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Wynn recently posted a really interesting comment (well, it’s actually a lot more than a mere “comment”) about my article on predicting horse temperament by using a set of tests developed at INRA. I thought it was really intriguing.
Here is the full text of the comment:
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“Hey, I have something very similar on my website! I use color-coded icons to indicate which youngsters I think will suit eventing, etc., vs. those for hunters or pleasure:
The BROWN jumpers are probably “too much pony” for hunters or for pleasure: they love to run and jump and will do so with little or no urging. They are very sensitive and quick to respond, and while they are less tolerant of rider errors, they are have a kamakazee degree of courage and willingness that will take them beyond the expected and into the exceptional. These ponies are super-obedient--almost brainlessly so--never questioning the demands of rider or handler, even if those demands are unreasonable. As a result, they are suited only for the experienced horseperson who knows what they want or for those under the close guidance of such horsepeople.
LEFT: Theodore II (Kevlar) full brother to Teddy (jr), a young stallion being backed now.
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The GREEN jumper icons indicate ponies whose temperaments are ideally suited for today’s show hunter environment.
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First and foremost, they are quiet ponies. How can we guarantee this, even in the youngsters? These are the ponies who stand in the cross ties without fighting or fussing from the very first day they are tied. The ones who can be left in a stall forever and never get full of themselves; the ones who, once they learn what their job is, will do it no matter what mistakes their riders make. They are also the ones who will probably hold back a bit the first time you ask them to work harder, run faster or jump higher and who will think you are downright crazy if you ask them to jump a 3’6” fence followed by a steep drop into water…again. These are not ponies who will ever piaffe. These are the potential packers, perfect for the novice or intermediate to raise and ride safely and enjoyably. |
 I Don't Know (Romeo), 2000 AHSA (now USEF) National Champion, Small/Med Green Pony Hunters, another 3/4 brother to Teddy.
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A few of our horses serve purposes in life not associated with any competition arena. These ponies are our culls or companions and are noted by GRAY icons.”
I asked her to elaborate a little bit more about how she developed the system and she sent the following information. I think it is REALLY interesting and a rare insight into the skill and dedication that goes into breeding top quality “ponies”!
“You wanna know why I did that (created icons)? It's implied in what I write, but I'll tell you straight that it's because not many people produce horses from start to "finish". Most breed and sell, or purchase and then train, or just buy fully trained. As a result, there really aren't many horsemen or women with a good grasp of the entire process--much less years of experience observing and dealing with it directly (for example, folks who DO breed, raise and compete a group of horses-- for example--split up that process between several employees. The guy in charge of the breeding operation--he who might know the babies' temperaments best--is not the guy (or gal) who ends up breaking them...and even then, the first rider is rarely the rider that takes them on to doing more challenging things. (Although I do think Acorn Hill does indeed have the latter part of that process in place, as does Jacqueline Mars' young horse program.)
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VSF Otis, an Anglo Arabian stallion by Theodore ridden by 2000 Pan Am Gold Medalist Connie Walker in 100 mile endurances races.
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And yet many will sprout out about temperament. But if they haven't been there when it was bred, born, halter broke, backed AND finally "challenged" (asked to do more than easy greenie stuff), how do they know what baby temperaments produce the horse which will dig in and try harder verses the one which backs off and/or gives up? The one that will try it if you just ask nicely verses the one that will only try it is under threat of punishment? The one that will keep going even if it is in pain verses the one which will put up a protest? Or, my favorite, since it's in Teddy's history: the one who, having made a big mistake over a jump, comes crashing to the ground, waits quietly for his rider to dust herself off, get back on, tie up the broken reins--and then takes the same jump again BETTER and just as willingly? |
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I know "Teddibabies" and I've had the good fortune to have both bred and trained a lot of them. (And a lot of other horses and ponies, too, BTW: I was riding for a good-sized sales barn in high school and broke babies for the track as an ungrad.) That's another rarity, IMO. Breeding, especially on a "statistically significant" scale, is so expensive that it is very rare for a breeder to also have been a trainer, and rarer still for the trainer to have been one that had to ride whatever crap she was handed (or managed to produce). Training breedy, talented horses who sell fast doesn't force you to figure out what it'll be best at because it's ALREADY good enough to get its butt sold. Try taking a less-than-ideal beastie and figuring out how to make it worth something. THAT will teach you to get into its head all right.
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Theodore, (Teddy Snr), Wynn’s foundation stallion. Sire of “Teddibabies” Teddy, Kevlar, Otis, Romeo and many others.
In Memoriam: May 5, 1980 to November 4, 2004 |
I don't think folks who don't get to know many babies from start to finish can possibly have as good a grasp of that as those who train their own babies--I think maybe that's one of Bruce Davidson's breeding program secrets, in fact (I don't know, but he's one I look to when it comes to producing something from start to finish. There are very, very few like him to look to, that's for sure.) And, like Bruce's program, I think it helps when you end up knowing a lot of babies who are similar to each other because they are related. You can recognize things much earlier on because you've seen them before. There have been ten Teddy full siblings and well over thirty halves and three-quarter siblings from his damside, plus over 300 from his sire's side. Obviously, I've know the damside relatives much more and more intimately than the sireside, but you still hear from a lot of the sireside ones, too...and what is chilling is when what you hear SOUNDS FAMILIAR (good and bad). That's when you start to think, "Hmmmm, maybe there's really something there."
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Theo, (Cat), Teddy Jr's full sister who is in training with
Larry Poulin for her lessor, USEF long-listed driver Vivian
Creigh, with the goal of qualifying for the USET with her for the
2009 World Championships.
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Anyway, I don't mean to brag here. I mean to talk about reality--something some of us breeders (women in particular) don't often face thanks to living in the kind of comfortable circumstances that cushion us from it. My point is that reality (OK, OK, yes: I mean being poor) forces you to look closely at what is actually in front of you, not what you WANT to be in front of you. It means setting aside the rose-colored glasses, blinking away the barn blindness and NOTICING and admitting stuff like "that filly is a real bitch."
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I'd have to say that nearly all of the fillies by Teddy's sire--all that I produced and more than a few of what others produced--are bitches-and-a-half. They are demanding and arrogant, but can act sweet enough...until they want something or something rubs them wrong. Then watch out! And the thing is this, I think, impacts their offspring and I think I'd have to dare to generalize about that beyond MY mares, too. Y'see, as your blogger mentioned, most of us attribute the bulk of the baby's temperament to the dam, but that research you reported on showed that it seemed to be more closely associated with the sire. My mares have taught me that maybe it is BOTH, but in different ways.
Here's my theory:
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Bitchy mares produce willing but sensitive babies; kindly mares produce brats. When the going gets tough, "ask" the former, "bribe" the latter.
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I watch my mares beat on their babies when they step out of line and then, years later, when I make a request, I get the same reaction their moms got: "Yes, ma'am. Whatever you say, ma'am. Just please don't back me into a corner and kick the hell out of me." In contrast, those mare-spoilt brats will test and test you to see how far they can take it and/or what reward they'll get for doing it.
But, as I'm sure you recognize, that's just one part of the temperament issue. The other is how they handle in general. For example, on my website, I talk about how the "green" ponies--the ones with green icons indicating they are more suited for hunters and/or less ambitious jobs--will stand tied without protest the very first time you ask them to.
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Out of Character (Repo), Teddy's 3/4 brother who is a successful hunter in Maryland.
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I've come to recognize that there are types which accept their surroundings and types that don't--but this isn't related to their relationship with humans and so I think this temperament trait may be something in their blood--or perhaps comes from the stallion. I don't know, really, except that in my experience, it does have a correlation with the amount of Thoroughbred blood they carry (vs. pony blood, that is). The ponies figure stuff out and realize "it ain't gonna hurt" or "I'll just wait and see." |
The Thoroughbred can be so much more sensitive that it vaguely/subconsiously/far-too-quickly takes in everything and so gets overwhelmed. At least, that's ONE "type" I've come to know. Put that type in the crossties without a sufficient introduction to the idea and instead of just concluding it's stuck where it is, it's thinking "I'm STUCK! What if the ceiling falls on me now? Or that horse over there reaches out to bite me? I can't move my head!!! I can't turn around!!! I can't RUN! Oh, no. Oh, no." Of course, it's not really thinking at it: it's just reacting.
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And THAT is what gets me to my favorite point in this long, rambling diatribe: THINKING vs. reacting. IMO, you don't want a horse that thinks too much, not if you want to do more than what is easily within its grasp. You want to be the one doing the thinking. You want the horse to be the one reacting...and the faster it can react to your thoughts, the better. Of course, if you yourself think rather slowly--i.e. you are an amateur rider or handler--the last thing you want is a horse that reacts fast. But if you have only two, steep, rocky, bending-line strides between the bottom of that big drop and that skinny over there...well, you know where I'm headed, right? You want a horse that reacts FIRST, and thinks LATER (if at all).
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Wynn riding Hideaway Prince, the Connemara/TB cross on whom she received her Pony Club "B" rating. (Wynn's horse resume - she also has an academic Ph.D. and career - includes graduating Pony Club as an H-A, breaking horses for the track, foxhunting, eventing, showing h-j, teaching and training horses through the Grand Prix level in dressage.)
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Somewhere else on my website I talk about why I don't use any Welsh blood in my sportponies, but admire that breed greatly for hunter ponies. It's because Welsh--and many other true pony breeds--are THINKERS. Indeed, many hunter ponies, I have no doubt, think they are far smarter than their riders and so just take over and do their jobs--and that's why they are so popular and valuable: they will "pack." I'm not saying the "react first" type will never pack. It's just that there are born packers and there are made packers--and the born ones are usually the ones who will stand in the crossties the first time asked AND will come to a screeching halt if you ask it to do something it thinks is just plain stupid...and again, the operative word there is THINKS.
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Theodore O’Connor Jumping
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My TAN icon ponies need experienced handlers and riders, or need to be developed under the guidance of someone like that, because they react first, think later. And, do note: it's not that they lack intelligence. I don't think being smart and being thoughtful are necessarily the same thing. Consider the way an eventer can pick its way "smartly" through a tight complex of x-c jumps or a gymnastic grid. A thinking horse would figure it out, too--and also figure out how to make it easier on itself (like by ducking out or by crawling its way through the grid instead of going forward). I can tell you EXACTLY which of my babies will slow to a near stop and pick their way through cavaletti the first time they are asked to do cavs. I can also predict which ones will FLY through the cavs (or jump over them) that first time. Put a good rider on the ones that fly it, get that horse to trust its rider to do the thinking, and IMO, you've got a competitive partnership that might go beyond the average.
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Please don't think I'm saying these are THE rules when it comes to this subject. This is only my experience and the conclusion I've drawn based on my experience. Perhaps by examining a number of experiences, from a wide range of backgrounds, we can come up with some useful generalizations about this interesting topic..”
For more information on P. Wynn Norman and her breeding program, visit Sportponies Unlimited or e-mail her.
All photographs courtesy of P. Wynn Norman © 2007
   
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